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	<title>Comments on: Backup Bouncer is Working, Confusing, Annoying Developers</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.n8gray.org/blog/2008/06/02/backup-bouncer-is-working/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.n8gray.org/blog/2008/06/02/backup-bouncer-is-working/</link>
	<description>distraction in action</description>
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		<title>By: Backup on Mac OS X: Testing MimMac with Backup Bouncer</title>
		<link>http://www.n8gray.org/blog/2008/06/02/backup-bouncer-is-working/comment-page-1/#comment-26527</link>
		<dc:creator>Backup on Mac OS X: Testing MimMac with Backup Bouncer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.n8gray.org/?p=172#comment-26527</guid>
		<description>[...] Failure in fifo only happens in ditto. FIFO stands for first-in-first-out. As far as I can tell, FIFO is not mission-critical for personal/local [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Failure in fifo only happens in ditto. FIFO stands for first-in-first-out. As far as I can tell, FIFO is not mission-critical for personal/local [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joe&#8217;s Amazing Technicolor Weblog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; the stable rdiff-backup is not looking so hot for metadata on OS X</title>
		<link>http://www.n8gray.org/blog/2008/06/02/backup-bouncer-is-working/comment-page-1/#comment-21040</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe&#8217;s Amazing Technicolor Weblog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; the stable rdiff-backup is not looking so hot for metadata on OS X</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.n8gray.org/?p=172#comment-21040</guid>
		<description>[...] bunch of things being tested by bbouncer that may or may not be of interest to the average user. A recent post by the author points out that bbouncer has a -T flag for indicating which level of paranoia to run at. Rerunning [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] bunch of things being tested by bbouncer that may or may not be of interest to the average user. A recent post by the author points out that bbouncer has a -T flag for indicating which level of paranoia to run at. Rerunning [...]</p>
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		<title>By: n8gray.org: More Backup Bouncer</title>
		<link>http://www.n8gray.org/blog/2008/06/02/backup-bouncer-is-working/comment-page-1/#comment-21027</link>
		<dc:creator>n8gray.org: More Backup Bouncer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.n8gray.org/?p=172#comment-21027</guid>
		<description>[...] print the &#8220;priority&#8221; of a test along with its outcome, which hopefully should clear up some confusion among less experienced users. On a tip from Patrick Power I&#8217;ve added a new test that combines [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] print the &#8220;priority&#8221; of a test along with its outcome, which hopefully should clear up some confusion among less experienced users. On a tip from Patrick Power I&#8217;ve added a new test that combines [...]</p>
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		<title>By: n8</title>
		<link>http://www.n8gray.org/blog/2008/06/02/backup-bouncer-is-working/comment-page-1/#comment-20955</link>
		<dc:creator>n8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.n8gray.org/?p=172#comment-20955</guid>
		<description>Hi Dave,

Thanks for the comment.  I do remember our conversation about this issue back when BB was first released, and one of the reasons for making this post was to give developers like you a place to point users who worry about the results of these non-critical BB tests.  As I said, I admit that the presentation is potentially confusing.  The term &quot;misleading&quot; rubbed me the wrong way, but I understood the point you were making.  Sometimes a little information is a dangerous thing.  :)

As for the SD FIFO/device policy (notice I never called it a bug), I&#039;m glad to hear you&#039;re planning on changing it.  I&#039;ll gladly agree that only BB users will probably notice the change, but it&#039;s encouraging to know that if I &lt;code&gt;mkfifo foo&lt;/code&gt; then &lt;code&gt;foo&lt;/code&gt; will be preserved in my backups.  It&#039;s a nitpick, but you might as well pick that nit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dave,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment.  I do remember our conversation about this issue back when BB was first released, and one of the reasons for making this post was to give developers like you a place to point users who worry about the results of these non-critical BB tests.  As I said, I admit that the presentation is potentially confusing.  The term &#8220;misleading&#8221; rubbed me the wrong way, but I understood the point you were making.  Sometimes a little information is a dangerous thing.  <img src='http://www.n8gray.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>As for the SD FIFO/device policy (notice I never called it a bug), I&#8217;m glad to hear you&#8217;re planning on changing it.  I&#8217;ll gladly agree that only BB users will probably notice the change, but it&#8217;s encouraging to know that if I <code>mkfifo foo</code> then <code>foo</code> will be preserved in my backups.  It&#8217;s a nitpick, but you might as well pick that nit.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Nanian</title>
		<link>http://www.n8gray.org/blog/2008/06/02/backup-bouncer-is-working/comment-page-1/#comment-20933</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Nanian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 22:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.n8gray.org/?p=172#comment-20933</guid>
		<description>Nate --

To clarify what I said to our mutual user:

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;From me&quot;&gt; This particular part of  Backup Bouncer&#039;s &#039;testing&#039; is rather misleading to most, especially  those who generally don&#039;t even know what these types of files do, or  how they&#039;re used... always a worry when someone starts standardizing  a test.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I wasn&#039;t attempting to say that &lt;b&gt;you&lt;/b&gt; were being misleading at all. Rather, the &quot;flat&quot; nature of the test results being passed along were being misinterpreted because they&#039;re &quot;weighted&quot; the same in presentation. Unlike much metadata, ACLs, etc, FIFOs and local devices are typically recreated after each boot - FIFOs, especially, are generally created at application startup time for cross-program communication. It seemed sensible to not copy them since their content wasn&#039;t really relevant. So the &quot;failure&quot; would generally not have any effect even if a user created their own FIFOs.

But, as I also said to this user:

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;Me again&quot;&gt;That said, we&#039;ve don&#039;t want people to be concerned about these  particular types of files if they do run Backup Bouncer and don&#039;t  understand what they&#039;re really looking at, and as such we have a bug  reported against this and hope to address it in a future release.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

We reported this bug -- really a design choice -- against the cloner back when Backup Bouncer was originally written (in fact, I emailed you about it at that time), and it&#039;s due to be fixed in the next release.

I hope that&#039;s clearer, and thanks for writing Backup Bouncer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nate &#8211;</p>
<p>To clarify what I said to our mutual user:</p>
<blockquote cite="From me"><p> This particular part of  Backup Bouncer&#8217;s &#8216;testing&#8217; is rather misleading to most, especially  those who generally don&#8217;t even know what these types of files do, or  how they&#8217;re used&#8230; always a worry when someone starts standardizing  a test.</p></blockquote>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t attempting to say that <b>you</b> were being misleading at all. Rather, the &#8220;flat&#8221; nature of the test results being passed along were being misinterpreted because they&#8217;re &#8220;weighted&#8221; the same in presentation. Unlike much metadata, ACLs, etc, FIFOs and local devices are typically recreated after each boot &#8211; FIFOs, especially, are generally created at application startup time for cross-program communication. It seemed sensible to not copy them since their content wasn&#8217;t really relevant. So the &#8220;failure&#8221; would generally not have any effect even if a user created their own FIFOs.</p>
<p>But, as I also said to this user:</p>
<blockquote cite="Me again"><p>That said, we&#8217;ve don&#8217;t want people to be concerned about these  particular types of files if they do run Backup Bouncer and don&#8217;t  understand what they&#8217;re really looking at, and as such we have a bug  reported against this and hope to address it in a future release.</p></blockquote>
<p>We reported this bug &#8212; really a design choice &#8212; against the cloner back when Backup Bouncer was originally written (in fact, I emailed you about it at that time), and it&#8217;s due to be fixed in the next release.</p>
<p>I hope that&#8217;s clearer, and thanks for writing Backup Bouncer.</p>
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